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These two players, both of which have had the honor of wearing the captain's arm band, live together and have lived together ever since there move to the Q-League. They play in different positions, with Haider Mahmood anchoring down the Iraqi defence and Razzaq Farhan applying his killer instict at the opposite end of the pitch. They are similar, however, in their love for the game, Iraq, and in the sacrifices they have made to keep Iraqi soccer fans holding their head up high. The two sit together in a casual and insightful discussion exclusively for shakomakonet. Pay close attention to the comradery they enjoy and the sense of humour they both bring to what has been a turbulent experience for the dynamic duo.

shakomakonet: Tell us about your early footballing years.
Haider: I am from New Baghdad. I began playing my football with the Al Rasheed schoolboys side in 1985. I then played for two years with the youth side of the Al Tijara club. Throughout all this time, I played with local teams in the various neighborhoods of Baghdad until I made it to the senior side of Al Tijara where I spent five years, then it was Al Tayaran, Al Jaish, and Al Nafut before moving on to Al Zawraa in 1994. I used to be a forward and I finished as the third highest scorer in the Iraqi league, but when I was selected to the Olympic team that same year, I played as a defender.
Razzaq: I am from Babil where I played there for two seasons. I then played for Al Quway Al Jawiya for years before moving to FC Bahrain in the Bahraini league in 1999. I then moved to Al Sharjah in the United Arab Emirates, where I enjoyed a successful run for four years before moving to Al Shamal in the Q-League.

shakomakonet: Are there certain people that were instrumental to your rise in the soccer world?
Haider: I had an older brother who played for Al Talaba and then moved to Al Quwa Al Jawiya who used to keep me on the right track. Another person who was very influential was a neighborhood coach named Jassim Kabab. He got his name because he would always treat his team to Kabab after winning a match at the Badawi Restaurant in the Karrada neighborhood of Baghdad. He was the only neighborhood coach who was famous at the regional level, and he used to take his local teams to play other teams in Iran and other neighboring countries. In Al Tijara, Adil Yousef and the legendary Amo Baba were key in refining my raw talent.
Razzaq: I used to enjoy playing soccer in the streets because, there, you are able to do whatever you want such as double kicks and trying to deke your opponent, but that brand of football is very different from that which is played at the professional level. There are many players that have amazing skills on the streets but aren't successful at the club level because they lack the fundamentals and the discipline. Kadhum Imtashar at Babil was very effective in helping me refine my talents and gain the confidence that I needed before, another influential person in my career, Natiq Hashim saw me in a game between Babil and his club Al Quwa Al Jawiya. He was coaching Al Quwa Al Jawiya at the time and was the key figure in my transfer from Babil to Baghdad.

shakomakonet: There are currently three Iraqi players in the Al Shamal lineup, how did that happen?
Haider: I was the first of the trio at the club. Al Shamal has always been a club that is in and out of the top division here in Qatar. When they finished fourth in the '93 season, it was also because of the help of another group of Iraqi players. In Iraq, you have to understand that Iraqis, despite their skill and talent, will play their football outside for mediocre salaries because of how bad the situation is for footballers at home. Al Shamal asked me to bring more Iraqi players after I was chosen as one of the top five players in the Q-League. I was asked to try and get Ahmed Abdul Jabbar because people knew him as my roommate when we traveled with the national team. I also suggested that we get Hashim Ridha to play up front. Both players came, but Hashim had difficulties getting along with the administration of the club, so he left. The club then inquired about the possibility of acquiring Razzaq, who was playing with Al Sharjah at that time. I didn't think that he would move from his club, but it was at the same time that he was loaned to smaller Al Khaleej in the Emarati league. It was the perfect time to get Razzaq, and he agreed. We have only played three games with all three of us in the lineup because of injury problems.

shakomakonet: Do you guys pass to each other more than you pass to other players?
Haider: We are forced to. I have the confidence that my passes won't be wasted if they are delivered to either Ahmed or Razzaq. The other players, perhaps with the exception of one Jordanian player, have mediocre skills. If the club only had locals in its lineup, then it wouldn't be any good. That's the reason why we are all injured. We are the only ones that put extra effort in the game. Other players refuse to play with the most minor of injuries. Razzaq played while he was injured. He scores many goals but you can tell that he isn't satisfied. Nonetheless, he has received many offers from other clubs. The team without him would be in a lot more trouble.
Razzaq: I received many offers from other clubs like Al Sadd here in the Q-League and Al Ahli of Saudi Arabia and others. They were teams with better opportunities for me. Here, I can score three goals a game and still lose the game. Goals don't come easy. But my destiny isn't in my hands. The club owns me. I feel that my efforts here are wasted.

shakomakonet: What is the difference between playing in Iraq and playing in Qatar?
Razzaq: The fans are the best thing about the Iraqi league. The fans there are much more interested in the game. The would never let you go without coming up to you and shaking your hand or asking for a picture or an autograph. In Qatar, even players like Batistuta aren't supported by the fans. He can sit in a coffee shop for hours and no one would pay him any special attention. Here, the league is better in the sense that you have the opportunity to train in world class facilities, its just not the perfect place to play. In Iraq, I remember when we used to travel with the national squad, we would receive tens of calls from children and supporters wishing us good luck in our games. In Iraq, there is more talent and players play with more pride and are more careful to play well and at a high standard. Losing a game in Iraq meant being sleepless for nights. In some league matches, I remember that our fans would be so mad at us for losing that they would surround the exits of the stadium for hours forcing to stay on the pitch and contemplate our loss. In the Q-League, whether the team wins or not, players pick up their cell phones, put a smile on their face, and walk out the door like nothing happened.
Haider: Most players here play football as a hobby and aren't really professionals. In Iraq, players always strive to become better. In the Q-League, I sometimes feel like a worker here, where I just go out and do my job for a wage. In Iraq, its so much more. There, players want to make their fans, friends, and families happy. Here, we always feel like second class players because the media is caught up in this narrow mentality that only players from South America or North Africa deserve attention. Despite the fact that players like Razzaq achieve more than Batistuta, the media continues to speak of Batistuta and other well known names that play their football here. We want more media attention. We want more encouragement from our fans, and the association. It seems that there are only two or three clubs that matter here. I don't think that serves the Qatari national team or the football association well.

shakomakonet: Iraqi football is going through a rebuilding process, is it heading in the right direction?
Haider: I don't think so. The situation now allows for everyone to do what he wants. It is disappointing that this is what we came to from a time that was riddled by punishment. Uday used to punish everyone for anything, and take players' salaries. And in those scary times, there were still people that were able to work selfishly for their own benefit. Imagine how it is now. Coaches choose players because they are friends with them.
Razzaq: That's true. There is a lot of patronism and corruption in Iraqi football today.
Haider: There are lots of people on the team and the administration that don't deserve to be there. I mean they didn't choose Razzaq for the Asian Cup qualifiers in Malaysia and Bahrain. Razzaq was the main reason behind us winning in West Asia. Emad wasn't at his best in that tournament and Younis was still a youngster, and they still didn't choose Razzaq. How can they choose Qahtan Jitheer who has been far from international football for so long over Razzaq. I mean Qahtan is my friend, but as captain I have to speak in the best interest of the team. And the problems are even greater than that. For example, there were no plane tickets given to me before our trip to Malaysia, and there was no fax sent to the Q-League asking for permission to release us. When I arrived there, I sat on the bench and witnessed players swearing at the coach. There was no control whatsoever. The coach is easily manipulated and goes by what he hears and sees in front of his eyes. He has no depth in perception and refuses to familiarize himself with the huge selection of Iraq players available. In my opinion, only around five out of the eighteen players that were named for matches in the qualifying stages of the Asian Cup deserve to be there. Just because we beat Iran in the LG cup earlier, people thought that our team was heading in the right direction. That perception was mainly generated by the media and was not a reflection of our otherwise poor standards on the pitch.

shakomakonet: Is the bottom line with Stange that he is poor technically, despite all that he has done for Iraqi football?
Razzaq: During these difficult times, even if Stange was a good coach, we need an Iraqi coach. Iraqi players need special treatment from a coach who is close to them. Adnan (Hamad) is good for us and for Iraqi football. He knows the conditions that we are going through. Stange is not a good coach. Maybe he has done things that no other Iraqi could have done in terms of preparing training camps abroad, but as a coach he is no good. He treats us as if we are playing under normal conditions and with all the necessary preparations. He needs to approach coaching the Iraqi side as if he is building from scratch, and needs to be more of a teacher than he is. He needs to differentiate between a starter and a sub. Look at what happened in Malaysia with players acting out of control. He doesn't know who the professionals are and who are the good players in the league. We need an Iraqi coach now, and perhaps a foreign coach in the future would be beneficial. But he has to be a coach with sound technical skills and works with Iraqi football the way Iraqi football needs to be worked with.
Haider: He works only for himself. I stood up for him when he was going to get let go by the FA after our loss to Jordan in a friendly match. I reassured him at that time that players like Ahmed (Abdul Jabbar), Razzaq, and I wouldn't play. The FA later agreed with us due to Stange's generosity and due to his ability to arrange training camps abroad. But then I experienced what I told you about in Malaysia, and it became apparent that he is a contradictory individual. I was fooled by him. He didn't choose Razzaq because he had heard a rumor that Razzaq had stopped training for a period of almost two weeks, which wasn't true. He never spoke to Razzaq prior to his decision. He blames others for his bad decisions. When I arrived there, he put me on the bench, which hurt me. He thought that I wasn't ready even though I had trained under him and I was familiar with his plan which was simply to play the long ball to the centre forward. He offers nothing new. He refuses to look at players beyond his immediate view, which proves his unfamiliarity with Iraqi football. There are a lot of players that he has overlooked because he hasn't seen them first hand. He has made no effort to look for talent. He loves media attention. If he was any good, others would be seeking his services but that hasn't happened.
Razzaq: That's true. I remember when I was playing with Sharjah in the Emirates, my friends and teammates were shocked at our choice with regards to Stange. They recalled his loss to the Uzbeks by five unanswered goals when he was coaching Oman. Now, he enjoys a great reputation internationally by exploiting the horrible conditions of Iraq. If he's that good, why didn't wealthy clubs in the Emirates and others in the Gulf want him?
Haider: Because things are obvious. Iraq is a country with a great tradition in football and is known for its high standards on the pitch. We beat Malaysia. So what? Sharjah beat them. Then we tied them. We beat Nepal in the last five minutes of the match, when other teams like Iran have no problems beating them. Even Bahrain wasn't that good, and then they beat us in Manama. Overall, we played poorly.

shakomakonet: You keep referring to his choice of players as one of the signs of Stange's inability to coach the team, who isn't in the lineup that you would like to see in there?
Haider: There are many players, especially those on the Olympic side. The play much better than the national squad played in Malaysia by many times. Players like Qusay Munir who scored against North Korea and Ahmed Salah who deserves to be a forward on the national side. The coach left out Abdul Wahab Abu Al Heil, what kind of team is that? It's a crime for some of those players to be on the national side.

shakomakonet: If you guys were selected as coaches of the national team, what formation would you choose, and who would be your starting eleven?
Razzaq: That's tough. I can't answer that.
Haider: There's a big difference between a player choosing and a coach making that kind of choice. Coaching is an ocean of knowledge and insight. A coach is better at evaluating players. The right coach that is. A player can choose, but it would be difficult.

shakomakonet: Would you play for the national squad under Stange?
Haider: Not me. I won't play under this coach.
Razzaq: I want to go and deal with the coach. I have unfinished business with him.

shakomakonet: Other than Adnan Hamad, and Bernd Stange, another coach comes to mind and that's Adnan Dirjal. Is the fact that he isn't a candidate for coaching the national team related to Iraq's failure to qualify for the 1994 World Cup?
Haider: Adnan is a good coach with a great personality. It's true that he gets angry, but he does so out of his love for the game and the team. In those qualifications, we had the best team that Iraq has ever seen. Even better than the teams of the Seventies and the Eighties. There were two or three players that were qualified to play each position. People were envious of Adnan because of his quick rise in Iraqi football. Adnan was told by the Russian national coach that the Iraqi team was four times better and fitter than the Russian team. And that was a team that qualified for the tournament. Imagine that! Adnan and the Iraqi team performed poorly in an exhibition game prior to the qualifiers and the media set him up for his demise which ultimately came in the game versus North Korea. Fans and coaches couldn't wait to jump on board with the media to kill Adnan's career.

shakomakonet: How is the sporting media in Iraq, and particulary with regards to their coverage of the national team?
Haider: Our media is easily influenced and can be pushed in any direction. I can give a cigarette to a reporter and he would make you out to be the best player in Iraq. They want money from me when they interview me. I'm the team captain. They should pay me!
Razzaq: In Iraq, everything works in the opposite direction of the rest of the world. Instead of the press pursuing a player for comments, a player needs to pursue the press to get his points of view across. They are ready, however, to brand a player in a negative manner. Even if a player is talented and puts all his effort into the game, the media doesn't mind writing negatively about him for no reason whatsoever.

shakomakonet: How do you guys play under all these terrible circumstances?
Razzaq: If one takes a look at the terrible status of playing fields alone in Iraq, he would conclude that there is no way that anyone plays the game at a professional level in the country. But there are still great talents coming up and there are great efforts being put forth by youngsters throughout Iraq.
Haider: As if the bus trip from Baghdad to Amman wasn't bad enough, we had to stop at the border and each player had to unload his bags in the cold for the bags to be searched, and that was at our own borders! There was no respect given to us. How easy would it have been to get us to go through the borders without any hassle? It would have taken one simple phone call. I remember how we were held up in Turkey for eighteen hours in the airport.
Razzaq: We've been through everything imaginable. I remember being held up in Syria when we were not allowed to enter Lebanon.
Haider: And now things are even worse. I was supposed to show up at a press conference with Stange in Dubai, and I wasn't given a visa.
Razzaq: I have the same kind of problems with regards to my visa, and I remember I was even once apprehended by Jordanian authorities for questioning regarding my entry to the country.
Haider: They were just jealous because we beat them in West Asia.

shakomakonet: Tell us more about the hardships of playing under the former Iraqi Olympic Committee headed by Uday Saddam Hussein.
Haider: He used to make players hunt out cockroaches from the sewage with their bare hands. After our loss to Kazakhstan during qualifications for the 1998 World Cup, players had half their beards and moustaches shaved. Even during those dark days, there were people that tried to defend the players. I remember once we were ordered to go and get beaten on our legs. I was waiting in line and I could hear players screaming from about 75 meters away. I thought that we were gonna get killed, because they were screaming so loudly. I could hear the sound of the whip. I was the last one to go in, and I found out that a good man in the Association was there to tell the person in charge of hitting us to hit against the bed, while the players screamed to give those standing outside who were close to Uday the impression that his orders were being followed. I even remember limping out of the room to make the ploy look more realistic.
Razzaq: Thank god I wasn't there for that.
Haider: But there were real punishments that included beating, shaving, and making players run under the heat of the sun in the desert for long distances. There was even a red room in the Olympic Committee headquarters where everything was red. The walls and the lighting. After a while, a player would be psychologically tormented because everything would seem red, even the lizards on the wall. I was lucky for the most part in that I avoided many of these punishments. But other players weren't as lucky.

shakomakonet: Do you feel that Sharar Haider's efforts to create an independent Olympic committee and a football association to replace those that are currently in place justified?
Razzaq: He deserves it the most.
Haider: He sacrificed his family and reputation and left Iraq. He didn't need money or citizenship else where. I know him and his family, and they were very well off. He deserves to be a member on the FA for sure. He defended players even though he was the least one punished.

shakomakonet: For the upcoming qualifications for the World Cup scheduled to be held in Germany in 2006, Iraq is not a seeded team, how will that change our chances of qualifying?
Haider: If things continue to go the way they are going right now, don't expect us to achieve anything.
Razzaq: We have nothing positive on the horizon to look forward to, or there is nothing to make us feel optimistic about our football. There are no proper training grounds, and no proper training camps. We have many good players. I mean we were represented by more than fifty players the last time we tried to qualify for the World Cup. But unless we enter serious training camps and there is a more professional approach to administering the team; it will be difficult to qualify.

shakomakonet: What about the Asian Cup this summer in China?
Razzaq: I don't want to be a pessimist. And I don't want to expect bad things and then have these expectations come back to haunt us in the tournament. I want to come out with a good result for people inside Iraq. They are living through very difficult conditions. If we do well, maybe we can make them forget what they are going through.

shakomakonet: What do you think of the rise of scoring sensation Younis Mahmood?
Haider: He is a good player but needs more experience. He puts a lot of effort into his game, and more experience at the professional level would benefit him. He has a good future ahead of him, but he needs to stay on track. I even call him sometimes and remind him of how lucky he is to have come from such a modest background to where he is now. Some players lose focus, but he is still on track and needs to stay that way.

shakomakonet: What about the striking prowess of Emad Mohammed, what kind of boost does that give the national squad?
Razzaq: He is a talented striker with a sweet sense for scoring. He is a star from a new generation players. He is one of the best strikers in the Arab world.

shakomakonet: Razzaq, is there a striker that you prefer playing up front with?
Razzaq: I had a great time with Hussam Fawzi, and now Emad and I understand each other well. I like playing alongside both of them.

shakomakonet: In your opinion, who is toughest team in Asia?
Razzaq: Japan.
Haider: I Agree.

shakomakonet: And what's the toughest crowd to play against?
Razzaq: Iran.
Haider: Definitely Iran.

shakomakonet: What was your worst game with the national squad?
Haider: It was against Bahrain in Manama during the 2002 World Cup qualifiers.
Razzaq: Me too.

shakomakonet: What about at the club level?
Haider: It was while I was with Al Zawraa and it was against Al Karkh. We tied, but both of the goals were my fault.
Razzaq: I was with Al Quwa Al Jawiya and we were playing against Al Jaish. I got sent off in the first five minutes because another player was getting rough with me, but the referee wasn't paying attention to his repetitive assault on me, so I hit the player and we lost that day.

shakomakonet: What was your best game with the national team?
Haider: It was during the Asian Cup in 1996 in the Emirates against Thailand. I scored twice that day. I was selected as one of the best eleven of that tournament. Another game was when I scored the equalizing goal against Kazakhstan during World Cup qualifications. And ofcourse our game against Jordan in the WAFF finals, when i scored the Golden Goal.
Razzaq: A game that I can't forget was against Jordan when we came back to tie the score after being down by four goals. I scored a goal and created a penalty kick.
Haider: Who assisted you in that goal Razzaq?
Razzaq: I don't want to say.
Haider: His friend played it for him perfectly so he can easily head it in.
Razzaq: He wants me to say it was him, so just say it Haider.
Haider: I remember that game. We got hit by stones from the fans after we scored we and ran to the King of Jordan and "saluted" him to mock the Jordanian players, who did that after every goal they scored.

shakomakonet: In that game against Jordan, which was the final of the Arab Cup, we made up a four goal deficit in the final minutes of the match. Did you consider that to be an achievement despite our eventual loss in penalty kicks?
Haider: I was crushed. It was a dream for them to tie us, let alone beat us. I wasn't happy even though we tied them and came from behind. I was sad. I remember when Abbas Raheem hit the post in extra time. It was so close.

shakomakonet: Speaking of Abbas Raheem; he recently had his move to play in the Kuwaiti league cancelled after there were Kuwaiti protests about having an Iraqi player in the Kuwaiti League. Would you play in Kuwait?
Razzaq: They offered me a contract before Abbas and only after the war ended by a week. It was Al Arabi in the Kuwaiti league. I wanted to go but I told them that I would consult other players and coaches before I informed them of my decision. So I asked Yahya Alwan and others and I realized that there were two sides to the situation. First, I would benefit in the media and financially because I would be the first Iraqi player to go to Kuwait and play there. The other side of the issue is that my own Iraqi fans would hate me because many Iraqis blame Kuwait for the hardships that Iraq has gone through. The night before I was supposed to inform them of my answer, Haider called me because he had heard from my agent that I was entertaining such offers and he went off at me. The next day, I told them that I couldn't play there.
Haider: It's difficult. I would never play there.
Razzaq: I think that Iraqi players should play in Kuwait. We should break that barrier.
Haider: But they're the ones that used to withdraw from competitions or games that involved us. Noone wanted to see or agreed with what happened in Kuwait in 1990. But they hurt us for thirteen years through the sanctions. Notwithstanding politics, and in the sporting world, thy used to pay money to have Iraq banned from participating in tournaments. How can one go and play there after all that?

shakomakonet: What was your best game at the club level?
Razzaq: It was against Al Zawraa while I was with Al Quwa Al Jawiya and Haider was playing and I scored twice on them.
Haider: I've never been deked out by a player. Except once. It was a player from Al Hilal from Sudan. In the corner of the six yard box. I put my leg out but he went around me and maybe that's why he missed because I made him go wide of the goal. I remember I just sat there on the field with my head in my hands. And my teammates had to come and get me up. We beat them.

shakomakonet: What does Iraqi soccer need the most?
Razzaq: The right kind of support, playing and training fields, equipment, and the right people. Not people who aren't specialized in sports leading the sporting movement in Iraq. Players need special treatment.
Haider: Whatever Iraq needs is what soccer needs. If all the things that Razzaq mentioned were to happen but Iraq is still unstable and insecure, then its pointless.

shakomakonet: If you were to retire tomorrow, what would be the one thing that you didn't achieve?
Razzaq: Make it to the World Cup.
Haider: It's every player's dream to play in the World Cup.

shakomakonet: What would you say to your fans?
Haider: No more violence in the fields. I played in a friendly match after the war in Iraq. The fans stole the cameras and phones from foreign journalists. There were knives and people shooting machine guns. There was betting everywhere. That needs to stop.

shakomakonet: Which color jersey do you like the best? Black, Green, or White?
Haider: Green and white.
Razzaq: White. We want to forget the black jersey because it came from a man who hurt us. We wore the green and beat Iran in Iran. Good things are still to come.

shakomakonet: If you were stuck on an island alone, who or what three things or people would you choose to accompany you?
Haider: My mother, my father, and my wife. Even though I'm not married yet.
Razzaq: Ahmed (Abdul Jabbar), Haider, and a soccer ball!

shakomakonet: What is your favorite food?
Razzaq: Dolma.
Haider: Yabsa. (White beans and rice for those who don't know.)

shakomakonet: Who is your favorite singer?
Razzaq: Kadhum El Saher.
Haider: Kadhum El Saher.

shakomakonet: Where is your favorite place in Baghdad?
Razzaq: Everybody loves his home town, but no one can let go of Baghdad.
Haider: Baghdad.

We would like to thank Haider and Razzaq for their dedication to the beautiful sport. They are heroes in every sense of the word. We wish them the best of luck as they continue their march towards football greatness. We hope to meet with them again in China and hopefully in Germany in 2006 as well.

Special thanks to all those that helped in recording and documenting this interview. Without you, this would not have been possible.